ARTICLES

Abortion Priest

Men are Killers; They're Dangerous

By Allyson Smith

Pro-abortion ex-priest Daniel Maguire, now a professor of moral theology and ethics at Jesuit-run Marquette University in Milwaukee, was the keynote speaker at Planned Parenthood's annual awards dinner May 14 at the Town and Country Hotel.

Maguire's keynote address plugged his latest book, Sacred Choices: The Right to Contraception and Abortion in Ten World Religions. Since the book's publication in July of 2001, Maguire has been giving speeches at Planned Parenthood facilities and universities.

Maguire left the priesthood over 30 years ago to marry Marjorie Reiley. According to Pro-Life News of Victoria, Australia, "As a young nun in the 1960s [Marjorie] was studying at the University of America when she fell in love with Father Daniel Maguire. He was laicised and they married in 1971. Both worked hard for pro-abortion causes. In 1983 she wrote a booklet entitled 'Abortion; A Guide to Making Ethical Choices.'

"In 1991 [Dan] told Marjorie he was ending their 20-year marriage so he could marry his -- nose doctor. During their bitter divorce, her eyes were opened when the Catholics for a Free Choice supported Dan rather than her. She told the Catholic newspaper, the Wanderer, that CFFC stood by Dan because he was important to the group as its only Catholic theologian with a Catholic address."

Marjorie expressed additional bitterness over her divorce and subsequent abandonment by feminists in in the Winter 1996 edition of the Human Life Review.

In a May 16 breakfast interview, Maguire spoke with News Notes reporter Allyson Smith.

Smith: I understand that you are a former priest and that you are now a professor of ethics.

Maguire: I am a professor of moral theology at Marquette University. I've been there 30 years. During those 30 years, I also taught for a year at the University of Notre Dame as a visiting professor, and I'm president of a group called the Religious Consultation on Population, Reproductive Health and Ethics. So that's my story. And I was a priest; I left the priesthood 30 years ago, married and had two sons.

Smith: What order did you study with or were you a diocesan priest?

Maguire: It was with the Philadelphia archdiocese.

Smith: What have you been doing since then in your career over [the last] 30 years? How did you go from being a priest, to then getting married and subsequently divorced, to the point of the positions and views that you hold, to write books like this?

Maguire: When I came home from Rome, I would have agreed with Pope John Paul II on the issues of this book: contraception and abortion. I was instructed by the experience of lay people in the parish, and I discovered that the teaching was unrealistic. And on top of that, my continued studies showed that the anti-contraception thing, for example, did not come from Christianity at all; it came from Stoic philosophy.... Then I discovered a long history of justification of even abortion throughout Christian and Catholic history, too. The strongest thing I discovered was that the early embryo fetus was not considered to be a person.

Smith: So, ensoulment had not taken place?

Maguire: Right. It had not taken place. Augustine said the early embryo has the moral status of a plant or a vegetable. As it develops more, it has more the moral status of an animal, and somewhere around three or four months is when it's sufficiently formed to be taking on-and they didn't have embryology to take on human status -- so it's human tissue, but it's not human until later on in the pregnancy, and that's been around from the beginning.

Smith: Would you say that Catholic theology has evolved? If that was the previous position of prior theologians and saints, have things evolved to the point where today we have a different and a better and a deeper understanding of what constitutes the human person?

Maguire: Yes, I think we do. Thanks to science, it takes place even later.

Smith: Why do you think that?

Maguire: Because the brain is not capable of sensation until six or seven months into the pregnancy.

Smith: What about the fact that pro-lifers say that brain waves are detectable X number of days after conception, that the heart begins beating, that all the basic foundations of the major organ systems are there? How you reconcile that?

Maguire: The electrical current that they are noticing ignores the fact that there are electrical charges from all cells. So they could pluck cells out of you right now or out of my skin, and they would get electrical charges. You don't have a brain. They have concluded -- the so-called pro-lifers, whom I don't call them pro-lifers because they're very truculent and very great warriors and always in favor of military budgets and police....

Smith: I looked up your name on an Internet search engine last night, and I came up with a lot of Planned Parenthood websites.

Maguire: Right. Since this book came out, I've done 20 or 25 [speaking engagements or appearances].

Smith: When did the book come out?

Maguire: July [2001].

Smith: I noticed in your book, I think you said in a couple of different places, that the Pope and a lot of the bishops are not trained theologians. What constitutes a trained theologian?

Maguire: You should have a doctorate in the field, and you should be keeping up to date. If I stayed back where it was when I got my doctorate, I would not be qualified to teach because there are developments going on all the time. The bishops are administrators; they're pastors. They don't have the time. If they keep up with theology, they're not doing their job. So they are just not trained theologians. The Pope was never trained as a theologian; he was trained as a philosopher. And what he does is tend to only listen to those theologians who agree with his view.

Smith: Are you referring to Cardinal Ratzinger, for example?

Maguire: Yes. I have met Cardinal Ratzinger. I took his picture with my son one time, and he didn't know who I was at the moment, but I introduced myself.

Smith: Was he warm and friendly?

Maguire: No, he was [imitating a surprised Cardinal Ratzinger] "You are Daniel Maguire?" I said, "Yeah." And my son said, "Why is he so surprised?" (laughter).

Smith: Why do you get that reaction, Professor?

Maguire: From Cardinal Ratzinger? Cardinal Ratzinger was once a liberal, and he turned very conservative and very oppressive, going after theologians who disagree with him and so on. And that's okay; that's one reading of the tradition, but it's not the only one. And even he would not call the position of anti-abortion-saying that all abortions are wrong -- he would not call infallible, nor did the Pope ever do that. And the opposite of infallible is fallible, so it's an open, debatable issue.

Smith: Here is a quote from the Pro-Life Encyclopedia: "Catholic Theologian Visits an Abortion Clinic" that talks about how Daniel Maguire "described how terribly frightening and violent abortion protesters were, how lovely and caring all abortion clinic workers are, and how the dismembered baby he held in his hands was-not a person or a candidate for baptism.' Every woman who gets an abortion is liberated by the act, and there is no such thing as a dead baby."

Maguire: That's not me.

Smith: That's not you?

Maguire: No, they're characterizing what I said. You can find it. It was probably one of the most published or republished things I ever wrote. It was in National Catholic Reporter, and it's still available. I am sure it is available. But what you have there is characterizations by a zealot.

Smith: The reason I bring it up is because in the Protestant chapter [of Sacred Choices], you talk about the "odd couple" of "the Catholic hierarchy and right-wing Protestants. Together they have created an atmosphere that spawns fanaticism and even terrorism." Are pro-lifers terrorists?

Maguire: Some of them are, certainly. They've killed seven doctors who perform abortions. They have caused doctors to have to wear bulletproof vests, so obviously a certain crazy fringe group is very, very violent and been very successful. It is a form of terrorism which has been very, very successful at closing clinics.

Smith: The pro-life side would say that we encounter terrorism all the time when we are out protesting. We get all kinds of things thrown at us, people try to run us over, not to mention the profanity and the vulgarities that are displayed to us.

Maguire: Um-hmm. That's all terrible stuff.

Smith: But I don't see that being equated with terrorism. We feel terrified in exercising our First Amendment rights. Would you agree with that.

Maguire: Oh, yeah. You should have every right to do that. My sister and her husband until he became sick were always out picketing clinics.

Smith: Back to Planned Parenthood. You say in your book, and I've also read another article by your ex-wife Marjorie, that abortion is a serious [matter]; it should be done only for very serious reasons. Can I say that both of you share that philosophy?

Maguire: I don't know what she holds now, but it's what she held then.

Smith: If abortion should only be done for serious reasons, why do we see so many, [for example] with Planned Parenthood of San Diego and Riverside Counties being the largest abortion provider?

Maguire: One of the things I told them the other night is that Planned Parenthood prevents more abortions than all the pickets and anti-choice terrorists in the country, and the way they prevent abortions is they give women a sense of taking care of their sexuality and not just leaving it up to the young male's impulses. They give them contraceptive information. They even give them free contraceptives.... We don't have very good sex education, and there is a lot of ignorance. People are still ashamed.... We'd do much better at preventing abortions by a certain healthier attitude toward sex and more honesty about that. You probably read me writing about the surprised virgin syndrome.

Smith: Yes, in fact I wanted to ask you about the hostile inseminator, but please expound on the surprised virgin.

Maguire: The surprised virgin was some of these girls in counseling. They're sitting there, they're pregnant, and the counselor goes, "Well, you know, how did this all happen?" and [the girls answer] "I don't know; it just happened." Where there's more candor, they'd say, "Whoops, this is getting very serious; I ought to decide whether I want across this barrier or not." And the hostile inseminator is the young men who don't care, and they just don't realize how serious it is. As the way I put it, when you enter a woman's body sexually, you may be entering the next several generations.

Smith: Does the hostile inseminator play into that kind of mentality?

Maguire: Yes, men are a very, very dangerous bunch. Not just that. They're violent....

Smith: Are you being facetious or serious?

Maguire: Oh no, I've said that all the time. I said that the other night to Planned Parenthood. They're very violent. I said to Planned Parenthood, "When was the last time you were walking down a dark street at night and you realized there were two young people close behind you, and you turned around and said, "Thank God, it's two guys! I was so terrified that it might be two girls." You never said that. When they blew up the government building in Oklahoma, I don't know anyone who said, "I hope they get the women who did it." Men are killers. They're dangerous; they're hostile; they're violent. You put them in charge of a government, they will spend $30 million an hour on military, $9000 a second. They're into war, and they can let bridges deteriorate and schools deteriorate and teachers be underpaid, but military? Huge budgets.

Smith: Does that also apply to personal situations, such as your own, for example, as far as being divorced and then remarrying, to leave your wife for another woman?

Maguire: Now you're getting personal, and you're inaccurate, and that part of the interview is over. But I notice you people from the right always have to get into personal life, but you don't know what you're talking about, you don't know my story.

Smith: That's why I'm asking.

Maguire: And it's none of your business. So, things that are your business are in that book ...

Smith: So you're looking at larger justice issues ...

Maguire: Larger justice issues which I'm most concerned about, yes.

Smith: ... that could end up justifying abortion and contraception, in your view?

Maguire: Yes, abortion is reasonable and it's required for serious reasons.

Smith: How do you determine what is a serious reason? Is that up to each individual?

Maguire: Individuals guided by common sense and that's why this book is valuable. It shows that all the world religions came to that certain conclusion. Pregnancy is such a commitment, and some people are not ready for it for physical reasons, for financial reasons.

Smith: What about convenience reasons? Are those serious reasons, what the pro-life side terms "convenience," such as, "It's going to mess up my education?"

Maguire: That might be a serious reason if you're pregnant.

Smith: It seems to me there are a lot of trivial abortions that go on.

Maguire: Well, then, if they're that frivolous, you wouldn't want them to be raising kids anyhow. You'll end up paying for those kids.

Smith: But you never know how life is going to turn out. You can't presume that things are going to go badly or go well, because life is full of surprises.

Maguire: So you can't impose solutions on everybody, especially when most people don't agree with the no-choice position. The question is, do you want to impose? I spoke at Gonzaga University on this recently. That's kind of interesting (laughter). That's a Jesuit university, and I'd say the vast majority of the students -- which is what I find at Marquette -- are pro-choice within certain limits. I spoke to a crowd at Little Auditorium, and most would appear to be on that side.

Smith: Isn't the president up there a pretty hard-line right-winger, Spitzer?

Maguire: Oh, yeah, he's gotten very, very tough.

Smith: He hasn't wanted Planned Parenthood to come talk on his campus.

Maguire: But he had me on. I think the reason is, the reason precisely is he's looking for a million dollars or more from the state to build a stadium for the basketball team, and he's been criticized, they've been criticizing him because he banned the Vagina Monologues and banned some other stuff, but he's asking for big bucks. So the press was hitting on him, saying, "Hey but you're not a university because you don't have academic freedom." So at that moment, the faculty realized that I was coming to town to talk to Planned Parenthood, and they said, "We're quite sure Father Spitzer will look the other way because he's not in a very good position right now to be banning another speaker."

Smith: Do you envision a common ground somewhere in the middle where people could come together?

Maguire: I think we're as close as you can get to a common ground because we're saying both views are respectable. The so-called pro-life view is a thoroughly respectable viewpoint. I held it myself for a long time.

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